Woodstock Early Bird has just come from a meeting with Town of Woodstock Listers Paul Wildasin, Carol Wood and Charlie Degener concerning their work, specifically having to do with the post-flood property tax abatement process.
This follows on the heels of a post WEB made asking asking them for their greater consideration and gentleness with the public after an Early Bird reported leaving their office in tears. It’s been an emotional time. Listers say people have even come to the office in tears which is a difficult starting point for any process.
In the specific case about which we wrote, they, too, felt helpless. They shook their heads after the meeting feeling that they had not been able to assist in the way they intended to. Their intention was not to lecture or to appear condescending to the particular subject. However, there is a good bit of education that needs to take place for each individual property owner to understand what exactly leads to their current tax bill and how Property Tax Abatement might or might not affect that bill.
The message is — we knew this anyway — they are NOT OGRES and do care very much about what they do and their commitment — by oath — to serve everyone while also preserving the integrity of the Grand List — that list being the basis for the taxes that pay for the operations of our municipality.
Here’s the deal if you go in: Listers need concrete information and that means of process of discovery and lots of questioning. It’s not the Inquisition but it may feel that way First off, they need to know names and locations of the property. They can then pull a file to review how the property has already been assessed. For example, in the case of Maple Street homes, those property owners have already been given a 25% credit or reduction in assessment due to the property being in a flood plain, owing to the fact that the Kedron Brook can overflow every spring. Well, who knew that? Now we know. (Update: WEB is double-checking this again with Listers. An Early Bird pointed out that it could not possibly be a 25% reduction in TAXES but we believe a 25% reduction in ASSESSMENT )
Wildasin also set up a hypothetical situation to show that even if the Village of Woodstock were to give a property tax abatement credit to those who lost use of their basements in the Maple Street area, for example — or needed to have them repaired — in the end that tax “break” would work out to be a few hundred dollars. The abatement would just be for a portion of lost basement, not on the whole property and certainly wouldn’t be enough to pay to fix the basement. Hypothetically speaking, because statute is not concerned with damage, spells it out as lost property or destruction to property. Frustrating if you’re looking for money. No doubt about it.
As you can see, very few folks will make it to the threshold (at least 50% loss of home) which is not to say the Listers are not there to try to figure it out. As caring community members, they would like to be the post-Flood philanthropists and just give away $20,000 to repair basements, but that’s not what property tax abatement is about. They say, frankly, they too, are figuring it all out, having gotten no guidance from the State of Vermont for this exceptional Tropical Storm Irene flood situation.
Now, this leads us to another deadline looming and a question related to it. Property taxes are due on November 4th. So Woodstock Early Bird wondered if people who postpone paying their taxes due to flood-related financial hardship while they fix up things or go through the BTA process would be responsible for penalties. The answer is: ” Yes, you have to pay your taxes by the due date!” That said, property assessments are made from an April 1st “snapshot” every year. If it turns out in April 2012 the “snapshot” of your property is considerably different than it was in April 2011, you are likely to see a future “break”.
However, right now, even if you are applying for and going through the Property Tax Abatement process, there is nothing in statute, according to Wildasin, to relieve you of the duty to pay. If you don’t get your tax bill in, you will be responsible for additional penalties (1.5% month) no matter what the outcome of the process.
Now, to wrap this up and back to the original point of the post, Woodstock Early Bird would like to state, having learned more, that we need to have some feeling for the Listers, too. Yes, let’s all hug and remember they are people who are dedicated to doing their not-so-well-paid jobs right — in a fair and equitable manner — as they work through the Property Tax Abatement process.
They opine about the post-Flood situation, “We are as out of our element as anyone who walks in the door.”
Good luck Everyone! And,thanks Listers for your hospitality!





Posted by Joby Thompson on October 19, 2011 at 15:38
That’s our house in your picture (Joby Thompson & Anne Macksoud) who took it – the picture I mean? Too bad it didn’t reduce the value of our home by 50% – it sure reduced our nest egg!
Joby
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Posted by Julia Carlisle on October 19, 2011 at 17:43
Oh dear…That river got in there good, didn’t it! The photographer is Dianne Langona and I will re-post it with an appropriate credit!
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Posted by Donna on October 19, 2011 at 17:25
Dear Julia: I am a Maple Street resident and I never knew I was getting a 25% discount on my property taxes. If I am, shouldn’t that appear somewhere on my tax bill. I don’t think that statement made by Paul Wildasin is correct. I hope you can get it clarified. Thank you.
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Posted by Julia Carlisle on October 19, 2011 at 17:41
Donna, I will double-check with Paul on this. I’m glad you pointed this out because it does need clarification. The Listers are occupied with assessing value of property not on mete-ing out taxes.
There are quite a few complicated ways in which they arrive at every decision and, as you point out, the 25% percent is certainly not a deduction in taxes but a reduction in how they assess the property.
I will follow up on this with the Listers, as I think you should. Thanks for asking for clarification!
WEB
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Posted by Ann on October 19, 2011 at 20:40
Julia,
When Danny and I read your post tonight we had the same question that Donna posted. Also Maple Street residents. Thanks for following up. We would be very interested to hear the details on this and how it is presented to us in our tax bills.
Best-ann
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Posted by Donna on October 20, 2011 at 07:29
After taking another look at this article, I see that it is a 25% deduction on your assessment, not your taxes, my mistake. That being said, I find it odd that I have never heard of this before and wonder if anyone else on Maple Street has?
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Posted by Julia Carlisle on October 20, 2011 at 07:41
Donna, you really need to ask the listers about your specific case. Everyone is different. But the general comment and it was general is that for people living in a flood plain there is already a procedure for taking that into consideration. But, again, you need to speak directly to the listers about your property. I have no idea if what I wrote does apply to you or not. WEB
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Posted by Paul Wildasin on October 20, 2011 at 08:56
Listers assess the value of a property based on Fair Market Value. Because Golf and Maple Streets are in an identified floodplain,the value of the land is graded at 75% of the average land value. Thus there is a reduction of 25% of the land value on which the house sits. This has been our policy since before I became a lister in 2005. This shows up on the lister card-available in our office-but not on the Tax bill–which is an entirely different entity. It is the taxpayers responsibility to make an effort to know what they are being taxed for. Lister cards and property files in our office are public records and therefore available for anyone’s perusal. We will also meet with any property owner and explain how to ‘read’ the property card and to understand the various components involved in arriving at a “fair market value’.
(Thank You Paul Wildasin, Lister, for this excellent explanation. We hope this helps people understand just a bit about the process – WEB)
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Posted by Susan Ford on October 21, 2011 at 14:17
Hi Julia – If I can help clear this up a bit (hopefully not make it more confusing). The listers have to assess a property as it stands on April 1 and the tax is based upon that. They cannot change that after the grievance period, etc expires which it did this spring. However, taxpayers who suffered damage can still get relief for their tax bill this year. They need to apply to the Town for an Abatement of this year’s taxes. That is heard by the Board of Abatement which is made up of the Select Board, the Listers and the Justices of the Peace. The abatement request is filed with the town clerk. The Listers have said they will help fill out the paperwork, in which case they won’t sit on the panel.
If their property is still damaged next April, then the Listers should be contacted for the assessment for next year.
Sorry if this is repetitive but I want to make sure that the folks that need help with their taxes know where to go.
Susan Ford
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